Navigating 'Phase': Generative universes with Seph Li

Seph Li discusses the generative installation called "Phase". The piece combines interaction and computational logic to create a unique and immersive experience for participants. Seph merges algorithms from the Wolfram Physics Project with traditional Chinese ink painting simulations, creating an interactive universe where visitors' actions influence the artwork's evolution. Some of the other things discussed include a simple taxonomy of different types of interactions, coding, and what Seph is currently working on.

 

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Highlights

• (0:02:14) Experience of the interactive piece "Phase'" and its abstractness
• (0:04:13) The tension between providing instructions and allowing discovery in interactive installations
• (0:07:41) The collapse of the universe in the piece and its significance
• (0:09:44) The conceptual idea behind the piece and its connection to Daoism
• (0:12:29) The use of ink painting in the artwork 
• (0:14:01) The importance of preserving poetic qualities in digital renderings
• (0:17:02) Robin asks about the influence of computer science on Seph’s art
• (0:20:30) Seph prefers working with bespoke code rather than tools like TouchDesigner
• (0:23:03) Robin asks about the process of making the artwork "Phase"
• (0:26:28) Seph discusses the challenges of fabricating the physical controller
• (0:28:16) Seph shares his current project involving artificial life and ink painting
• (0:30:43) Seph envisions an intimate gallery experience for his new piece

About Seph Li

Seph Li, originally from Beijing and now based in London, has a bachelor's degree in Computer Science and Entertainment Design from Tsinghua University, and an M.F.A. from UCLA. His work has gained international recognition, with exhibitions across Japan, the U.S., Spain, Brazil, and more. He has worked with Tokyo's renowned teamLab and received commissions from global brands such as Google. His achievements include a Jury Selection in the Entertainment Division at the Japan Media Arts Festival 2012, and a nomination for the prestigious 2023 3D/Interactive Award.  

Key takeaways

Description of ''Phase''

''Phase'' is a generative art piece by Seph Li. This installation uses rule sets from the Wolfram Physics Project to generate clusters of universes, visually split into Chinese ink painting strokes. The artwork is projected onto frosted glass, creating an illusion of floating images. Participants engage with this universe through a custom control device, their interactions expanding the painting area and leading to the eventual collapse of the universe system.

Interaction

“There are basically two fundamental ways for people to interact with something digital. One is the installation picking up passively, the participants, say their locations, or their movement and installation directly reacts to it. Another one is to ask the participants to actively interact with a piece.”

The role of the viewer

"Interactive or digital pieces should have their own identity instead of just reacting to people’s interactions."

Participants in ‘'Phase'' play a unique role. While they can influence it, they cannot change its intrinsic structure, highlighting the predetermined nature of the universe.

Why Seph works with code-based approaches

"For personal artwork, I feel like it's important for me to keep the freedom or not get limited by the tools."

Embracing experimentation and failure

"Try and fail, accumulate as much experience as you can, because you never know when it will come into effect."

Read Robin’s reflection on this conversation - Rethinking media art processes: from digital tools to physical prototyping

Links from the podcast  

• Watch a video of Phase
• Explore the web version of Phase
• Visit Seph Li’s website    
• Follow Seph Li on Instagram   
• Read an interview with Seph L on Al-Tiba9 
• Read an interview with Seph Li on Art Connect 

Transcripts of this interview with Seph Li

What is Phase and how do participants interact with it?

Robin: Seph, welcome to the Creating New Spaces podcast. What’s it like to experience Phase?

Seph: I think for most people at the very beginning it might be very confusing because what they see is very abstract. You can watch a video of Phase to see how participants engage with it. because what they see is very abstract.

Robin: So I’ve got a few more questions about what you’ve just been talking about as well.

Seph: So I’ve actually done a lot of interactive installations before.

Robin: I always think of it as almost being in a category of.

Seph: Yeah. So in this piece, there’s actually multiple layers of interaction.

How does Phase reflect generative systems and the Wolfram Physics Project?

Robin: I actually find that really interesting in the piece, the duration of it.

Seph: Yeah, I think it’s kind of more important as a concept than an experience.

Robin: It’s interesting about your work is that it starts with a conceptual idea.

Seph: It’s very interesting because I think it’s Dr. Stephen Wolfram who proposed a new fundamentals of theory of physics. You can learn more about the Wolfram Physics Project that inspired this artwork.

Seph: He then uses that new system to kind of get a few equations.

Why does Seph Li combine Chinese ink painting and digital aesthetics?

Robin: Both ways of understanding have sort of a holistic way of thinking.

Robin: I actually want to dive into the use of simulating ink painting.

Seph: Because I actually studied computer science in my undergrad, I understand how digital systems render visuals. You can explore my rendering approach in the web version of Phase.

Robin: Okay, so it’s. That sort of in between is a nice way of thinking about it.

What is the technical process behind making Phase?

Robin: You started studying computer science and game design.

Seph: It’s actually very interesting because I wanted to make video games.

Robin: Without too much detail. Seph, I’m sort of interested.

Seph: It’s actually all very custom made code because I have a habit.

Robin: Okay, so the process is fun. So yeah, you actually enjoy that coding side of it.

Seph: Well, one of the things is a lot of my stuff actually does the simulation.

Robin: Yeah, so it’s almost that because you’re working with these bespoke things.

Robin: We sort of started to touch on this a little bit. And what was the process behind making Phase?

Seph: So Phase was actually commissioned by Chinese National Television. You can see more about this on my official website.

Robin: I think this is really interesting that essentially you started with the web version.

Robin: How did you start to sort of prototype and work with the interactions?

Seph: Well, the idea is actually very simple because I already sort of using a gyroscope.

Seph: The controller was actually 3D printed and had a transparent frame.

What is Seph Li’s new jellyfish artwork and how does it explore artificial life?

Robin: What are you currently working on?

Seph: So currently I’m working on something similar to artificial life. I talked about this concept in my Art Connect interview.

Robin: So essentially, the idea of eternal life and things cycling.

Robin: That’s really interesting, because I’m going to say that’s the complete opposite.

Robin: As a bit of a wrap up, what’s your greatest piece of advice to other artists working with interactions?

Seph: I think just try and fail, accumulate as much experience as you can.