Making energy usage visible with Ali Phi

Ever wondered about the environmental impact of your digital footprint? In this interview, Ali Phi discusses the creative process behind 'TWh (terawatt hours)'. 'TWh' is an installation that blends web technologies to explore the environmental impact of digital technologies. The installation was commissioned by the New Now Festival and exhibited at the Mixing Plant in Zollverein, an industrial coal mine complex and UNESCO heritage site in Essen, Germany.

Listen to this podcast to learn about:

• How Ali uses installations to visualize energy and highlight the ecological footprint of digital technology.
• How installation and performance have distinct possibilities and problems. 
• How Ali designs immersive experiences with multiple layers of audience interaction.

Subscribe using your favourite podcast player or RSS

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts   |  Spotify   |  Amazon Music  |   Android   |   Instagram   |   RSS

Highlights

• (0:0:04) Exploring digital footprints through interactive art installations
• (0:4:16) The environmental impact of data storage and digital technologies
• (0:8:48) Art, technology, and social impact in Decompositions for computers
• (0:15:56) AI-driven interactive art and its environmental impact
• (0:17:13) Exploring AI and technology as tools for creative artworks
• (0:19:49) Creating 3D models and prototyping
• (0:24:12) Layers of audience experience in interactive art installations

 About Ali Phi

Ali Phi, originally from Tehran and now based in Toronto, is a new media artist and creative technologist. His work intersects art, science, and technology through installations, autonomous machines, and performances. Focusing on the interplay between physical perception and cognitive exploration, Ali uses computer programming and generative algorithms to create interactive media that blend geometry, light, and poetry.

 As the artistic director of TADAEX, he has been a jury member, mentor, and lecturer. His work has been exhibited at Ars Electronica, Mutek (Montreal, Santiago, Buenos Aires), the Ontario Science Centre, Patchlab Digital Art Festival (Poland), and Asia Now: Paris Asian Art Fair. He has earned awards from the Canada Council for the Arts, Ontario Arts Council, and Toronto Arts Council.

Key Takeaways:

• Ali Phi’s artworks serve as mirrors that reflect viewers to themselves, exploring themes of culture, technology, and environmental impact.
• The “TWH” installation invites viewers to engage with their digital footprint in a visually captivating and interactive manner.
• Technology is a tool for Ali, allowing him to create immersive experiences that provoke thought and discussion on pressing societal issues.
•  By incorporating AI and web technologies into his art, Ali challenges traditional notions of artistry and explores the intersection of art and technology.
• His approach to installations and performances involves considering the spatial dynamics, audience engagement, and the energy flow within the space to craft impactful experiences.

 Links from the podcast  

• Learn more about the TWh
• Visit Ali Phil’s website 
• Follow Ali Phil on Instagram 
• Find out more about the Machine with Oil - Arthur Ganson
• Learn more about the New Now Festival

Edited transcripts of Making energy usage visible with Ali Phi

Robin: What’s it like to experience Terawatt Hours? 

Ali Phi: The project aims to reflect viewers' instant digital footprint on the internet. The idea was to create something beautiful that mesmerises viewers. As they engage, they begin to realise how the machine evolves and operates based on their interaction. The final setup is a mirror corridor—a hallway with a transparent screen in the middle. This screen projects point clouds and formations that are generated in real time based on user interaction. The depth of the mirrors enhances the experience.

Using mirrors in interactive art installations

Viewers are not really invited to look at the screen itself but at the image created from the screen within the infinite mirrors.

Robin: Looking at the documentation, it seems the mirrors create light effects across the viewers too. It becomes almost like a projection onto them, but in a subtle way, not as direct as some other works.

Ali Phi: Exactly. In my installations, I like to play with viewers as objects and key elements of the work. Shadows, light, negative space, reflections, and transparency are materials I often use. Here, viewers focus on their own image and the pattern created by the lights in the infinite mirrors. At the same time, something else is forming—controlling the light sources and the formations in the work.

The concept behind Decompositions for Computers

Robin: Where did the idea for this piece come from?

Ali Phi: It came during COVID and after I moved to Toronto. I was working with companies on 3D web-based applications, and NFTs and remote working were booming. I realised these so-called 'green' technologies might not be so green. Think of the data stored—images, videos from years ago on platforms like Meta. These sit unused but still consume energy.

This installation emerged from Decompositions for Computers. I read that by 2018, Facebook had more deceased users than living ones. That made me think about the environmental costs of storing data indefinitely. The work looks at data, CO2 production, and energy footprints as natural processes—asking viewers to reflect on what digital presence costs the planet.

We are also increasingly relying on AI, which consumes enormous resources. AI tools, face filters, and storage systems use up electricity that often feels invisible until highlighted through art. My goal isn't to offer solutions but to shed light on this reality through poetic means.

AI, digital footprints, and energy consumption in art

The installation includes a pelican case housing the system’s core. When viewers press a button, the setup resets, generating new point clouds. Behind the scenes, each interaction triggers AI processes, web calls, and real-time data updates that measure energy use. By the end of the show, over 4,000 clicks were logged—equivalent to a petrol car’s yearly fuel use. This tangible stat made the abstract issue real for people.

Robin: That’s a really clear and impactful way to make the concept accessible. Why start with AI?

Ali Phi: AI was key because it’s resource-heavy and felt like a strong symbol of digital consumption. I often use AI and new tech tools in my work but always with some irony. I don't particularly love the technology itself—I treat it as a tool, like a mechanic uses a wrench. It’s the concept that matters most to me.

The role of TouchDesigner in prototyping interactive installations

Robin: How did you approach prototyping?

Ali Phi: I used TouchDesigner for both the prototype and the final piece. Because the installation was in Germany and I was remote, I modelled everything in 3D first, including lighting and mirror reflections. Even with experience, though, nothing replaces seeing it in the actual space. I also built a small-scale physical prototype, but the true impact of mirrors can’t be fully captured at that size. Past experience with mirrors in large-scale works helped guide the design.

Robin: Did your civil engineering background help?

Ali Phi: Definitely. I’m comfortable reading architectural plans and can mentally visualise 3D spaces. But despite planning, there’s always risk involved in installation work. You have to be ready to adapt on site.

Reflections on performance vs. installation art

Robin: How do performances compare to installations in your practice?

Ali Phi: Installations allow the audience more freedom. They can immerse themselves, step back, or even watch others engage with the work. Performances focus the audience’s attention on the performer, changing the dynamic. I usually keep myself low-profile during performances, letting the visuals dominate the space.

Advice for artists exploring interactive digital art

Robin: Any advice for artists working with interactive experiences?

Ali Phi: Don’t limit yourself to one tool or platform. Technology is just a medium, no different from paint or an instrument. Focus on the ideas you want to communicate—the tools are just there to help you express them.

Visualising energy consumption: Ali Phi’s interactive digital art installation

Robin: What’s it like to experience Terawatt Hours? (Project page)

Ali Phi: The project aims to reflect viewers' instant digital footprint on the internet. The idea was to create something beautiful that mesmerises viewers. As they engage, they begin to realise how the machine evolves and operates based on their interaction. The final setup is a mirror corridor—a hallway with a transparent screen in the middle. This screen projects point clouds and formations that are generated in real time based on user interaction. The depth of the mirrors enhances the experience.

Using mirrors in interactive art installations

Viewers are not really invited to look at the screen itself but at the image created from the screen within the infinite mirrors.

Robin: Looking at the documentation, it seems the mirrors create light effects across the viewers too. It becomes almost like a projection onto them, but in a subtle way, not as direct as some other works.

Ali Phi: Exactly. In my installations, I like to play with viewers as objects and key elements of the work. Shadows, light, negative space, reflections, and transparency are materials I often use. Here, viewers focus on their own image and the pattern created by the lights in the infinite mirrors. At the same time, something else is forming—controlling the light sources and the formations in the work.

The concept behind Decompositions for Computers

Robin: Where did the idea for this piece come from?

Ali Phi: It came during COVID and after I moved to Toronto. I was working with companies on 3D web-based applications, and NFTs and remote working were booming. I realised these so-called 'green' technologies might not be so green. Think of the data stored—images, videos from years ago on platforms like Meta. These sit unused but still consume energy.

This installation emerged from Decompositions for Computers. I read that by 2018, Facebook had more deceased users than living ones. That made me think about the environmental costs of storing data indefinitely. The work looks at data, CO2 production, and energy footprints as natural processes—asking viewers to reflect on what digital presence costs the planet.

We are also increasingly relying on AI, which consumes enormous resources. AI tools, face filters, and storage systems use up electricity that often feels invisible until highlighted through art. My goal isn't to offer solutions but to shed light on this reality through poetic means.

AI, digital footprints, and energy consumption in art

The installation includes a pelican case housing the system’s core. When viewers press a button, the setup resets, generating new point clouds. Behind the scenes, each interaction triggers AI processes, web calls, and real-time data updates that measure energy use. By the end of the show, over 4,000 clicks were logged—equivalent to a petrol car’s yearly fuel use. This tangible stat made the abstract issue real for people.

Robin: That’s a really clear and impactful way to make the concept accessible. Why start with AI?

Ali Phi: AI was key because it’s resource-heavy and felt like a strong symbol of digital consumption. I often use AI and new tech tools in my work but always with some irony. I don't particularly love the technology itself—I treat it as a tool, like a mechanic uses a wrench. It’s the concept that matters most to me.

The role of TouchDesigner in prototyping interactive installations

Robin: How did you approach prototyping?

Ali Phi: I used TouchDesigner for both the prototype and the final piece. Because the installation was in Germany and I was remote, I modelled everything in 3D first, including lighting and mirror reflections. Even with experience, though, nothing replaces seeing it in the actual space. I also built a small-scale physical prototype, but the true impact of mirrors can’t be fully captured at that size. Past experience with mirrors in large-scale works helped guide the design.

Robin: Did your civil engineering background help?

Ali Phi: Definitely. I’m comfortable reading architectural plans and can mentally visualise 3D spaces. But despite planning, there’s always risk involved in installation work. You have to be ready to adapt on site.

Reflections on performance vs. installation art

Robin: How do performances compare to installations in your practice?

Ali Phi: Installations allow the audience more freedom. They can immerse themselves, step back, or even watch others engage with the work. Performances focus the audience’s attention on the performer, changing the dynamic. I usually keep myself low-profile during performances, letting the visuals dominate the space.

Advice for artists exploring interactive digital art

Robin: Any advice for artists working with interactive experiences?

Ali Phi: Don’t limit yourself to one tool or platform. Technology is just a medium, no different from paint or an instrument. Focus on the ideas you want to communicate—the tools are just there to help you express them.