Crafting immersive spaces with Simon Burgin

Explore the intricate process of crafting immersive digital spaces with Simon Burgin. Simon Burgin creates immersive artworks and interactive installations featured in prominent venues such as The Lume in Melbourne and the National Museum of Australia. In this episode, Simon shares insights into his project, “Natures Store", an immersive moving image piece created using AI-aided photogrammetry to reimagine natural environments. "Natures Store" was featured as part of Immerse 2024, an event that breaks away from the traditional art gallery setting to share art in unexpected places across Knox, Melbourne, Australia.

Listen to this podcast to learn about:

• Simon combines AI-aided photogrammetry with tools like Unreal Engine and TouchDesigner to create detailed, immersive environments.
• Iterative development plays a crucial role in Simon's artistic process.
• The concept of immersion goes beyond scale, focusing on how art engages and transports the audience.

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Highlights

• (0:00:08) Exploring immersive art through digital and natural environments
• (0:04:58) Balancing art and design: iterative development and client needs
• (0:09:31) Exploring AI tools in art and commercial work
• (0:13:56) The challenges of knowing when to stop in creative work
• (0:16:41) Creating immersive art by prioritising audience experienc

About Simon Burgin

Simon Burgin is a New Zealand-born digital artist and creative technologist. With 18 years of experience, he explores themes like environment and duality through contemporary media. Simon has developed immersive artworks for venues such as The Lume in Melbourne and WNDR Museum in Boston. His work includes interactive installations for public spaces like Stocklands 'Aura' and museum exhibits for the National Museum of Australia. Simon's projects also extend to brand activations for Nissan and BMW, as well as live A/V performances at events like Dark Mofo and Melbourne Music Week.

Key Takeaways from this interview with Simon Burgin

Description of "Natures Store"

"Natures Store" is an immersive moving image piece that reimagines the natural environments of Ferntree Gully, in Melbourne, Australia using AI-aided photogrammetry. The installation offers an intimate, yet expansive experience, blurring the line between digital and natural landscapes.

The balance between chaos and order in procedural art

 In "Natures Store," achieving the right balance between chaos and order was crucial, particularly when working with procedural systems like particle simulations. Simon reflects on the challenge of knowing when a piece is complete, often spending extensive time experimenting with different attributes to reach the desired outcome.

The role of iterative development in the creative process

The importance of iterative development is central to Simon's process. By approaching his work like a developer, he continually refines and builds on prototypes, allowing for ongoing experimentation and exploration until the final piece emerges.

Immersion beyond scale: engaging the audience

True immersion, according to Simon, goes beyond the scale of the artwork. The key lies in how the piece engages and transports the audience, whether through visual effects, sound, or the overall environment. The focus is always on creating an experience that deeply resonates with viewers.

Advice

"I think the key thing with immersive experiences is to consider the audience and really think about the context and how the arts can immerse the viewer, and whether that’s visual or aural” - Simon Burgin  

Links from the podcast  

• Visit Simon Burgin’s website 
• Follow Simon Burgin on Instagram 
• Learn about Luma Dream Machine the AI-aided photogrammetry app Simon uses   
• Learn more about the space Simon created for The Lume Emergent Melbourne.   
• Learn more about The Lume 

Edited transcripts of this interview with Simon Burgin

Ai-aided photogrammetry in immersive art

Robin Petterd: This episode explores what makes an experience immersive, the use of AI in creating digital environments, and the challenges of knowing when a piece is truly finished. Simon, what’s it like to experience Nature’s Store?

Simon Burgin: Yeah, ideally. Nature’s Store is immersive in terms of its scale. In an ideal world, it would be even bigger—I love scale and big work. But in its current setting, the experience feels more intimate. They’re like surreal vignettes I’ve created. I wanted the experience to feel like a world or environment unfolding in front of you. The work itself is a series of environmental vignettes, and they’re quite detailed.

Simon Burgin: They have a certain scale—quite large environments—but they still feel intimate. I scanned everything on my iPhone, so it’s very much my perspective on lots of small environments. Some are really tiny—like a little mushroom I found on the ground. So it’s intimate in a way, but the way they’re blown up and projected makes it immersive. That word gets overused, but ideally, I’d love to put them into an even more immersive environment if I could.

Robin Petterd: So it’s rear projection, a bit larger than human scale. The viewpoint seems to move through these surreal natural environments. Almost like an endless zoom. Is that the intention?

Simon Burgin: That’s actually a nice analogy. When I conceived it, I was thinking about early photography—like pinhole cameras. That idea of looking into something not quite in focus through a tiny lens. I love recreating that in a digital space. It’s really interesting.

Robin Petterd: It looks like you’ve been sketching ideas for this piece for a while—where did the idea come from?

Simon Burgin: Nature’s Store is a kind of successor to a larger work that’s showing at The Lume Melbourne—one of the largest immersive projection spaces in the world. They commissioned me to create a feature—a kind of city film—using similar procedural techniques to Nature’s Store.

Simon Burgin: I’m really interested in neural radiance fields and the technology behind 3D scanning. But I’m also fascinated by procedural and generative art processes in Unreal Engine and TouchDesigner. Nature’s Store is a refinement of those explorations.

Using Unreal Engine and TouchDesigner in media art

Robin Petterd: That’s what I noticed looking at your feed—it feels like an ongoing sketchbook. Do you approach these works like a designer or more like a studio artist?

Simon Burgin: I actually think of it like iterative development. I start with a prototype and build on it, just like sketching and refining. That approach really stuck with me—though at art school, I felt like practice got a bit sidelined for pure concept.

Robin Petterd: Yeah, and especially with technology, there’s often a disconnect between thought and outcome because of technical delays. You’re constantly wrestling with tools, ideas, and setbacks.

Simon Burgin: That’s definitely true. I have both a design and art practice. Some projects are more experimental and exploratory—like Nature’s Store—and others are client-based, with clear objectives. There is some crossover, but Nature’s Store is very much an art piece.

Robin Petterd: So how do the two processes compare?

Simon Burgin: With design, I’m working for a client—it’s their audience, their outcome. With art, I’m the client. I have the final say. There might be collaborators, but ultimately it’s my decision.

Robin Petterd: Steph Lee, a previous guest, mentioned using different tools for art versus commercial work. Do you do the same?

Simon Burgin: Actually, I use the same tools for both: Unreal Engine, TouchDesigner, Adobe Suite, Figma—they all get used across the board. The aesthetic might differ in client work, but the level of craft and time is often similar.

Robin Petterd: Was Nature’s Store built in Unreal?

Simon Burgin: Yes. The final renders are from Unreal Engine, but I processed assets through TouchDesigner to make it work. I had to come up with a few clever workarounds.

Robin Petterd: You’ve also experimented with AI tools. Is that changing your process?

Simon Burgin: Funny you ask—I was chatting with a colleague today and we were playing around with Stable Diffusion. I’m intrigued by AI, but also cautious. I love that it can clean up my grammar—I’m not a great writer—but visually, it often reinforces clichés. It’s more like a machine hallucinating than art.

Robin Petterd: That’s a great way to put it—AI as hallucination. You’re also using Luma AI, right?

Simon Burgin: Yes, I’ve been using Luma AI for a couple of years. It uses neural radiance fields and Gaussian splatting to reconstruct 3D scenes from video or images—ideal for asset generation and filling gaps in 3D scans. I used to rely on tools like Scaniverse or Polycam, but now I prefer Luma.

Robin Petterd: This piece really shows how that process can lead to unique outcomes. What was the biggest challenge in making it?

How artists create immersive experiences

Simon Burgin: Knowing when to stop. Working with procedural systems is like oil painting or printmaking—you can just keep going. I created about twelve different vignettes, all as cinematics in Unreal. I’d spend hours adjusting particle systems and tweaking parameters. It’s easy to get lost and keep re-rendering. At some point, you have to say, “That’s it.”

Robin Petterd: That relates to a question I often return to—how do you know when something is resolved?

Simon Burgin: Especially with particles—it’s about finding a balance between chaos and order. A kind of sculptural murmuration. It’s more about feel than precision.

Robin Petterd: You mentioned earlier that “immersive” can be an overused word. Why do you feel that way?

Simon Burgin: I think most good art is immersive. It’s about commanding presence and transporting the viewer. A Rothko painting can do that. It doesn’t need to be digital. But immersive has become a buzzword. That said, it’s great to see more accessible art that resonates with wider audiences—even kids.

Robin Petterd: With digital spaces, especially interactive ones, you have to think deeply about the viewer’s experience.

Simon Burgin: Absolutely. My interest in immersive work started with an exhibition in Berlin in 2007 called From spark to pixel at the Martin‑Gropius‑Bau, curated by Richard Castelli. It featured works outside the frame—like a water table with projections and light refractions. That blew me away. That’s when I knew I wanted to make this kind of art.

Iterative development in art practice

Robin Petterd: That reminds me of a painting lecturer who became obsessed with cathedral design—spaces where every centimetre was considered. To wrap up: What’s your advice for other artists creating immersive experiences?

Simon Burgin: Think about the audience. Really consider how your work engages them—visually, aurally, even physically. Whether you’re using scale, sound, or even sensory deprivation, it’s all about creating an experience that transports them. I was recently in the Hagia Sophia, and even as someone non religious, I was deeply moved. That’s the power of immersive space.

Robin Petterd: Yeah, cool. I actually just really like what you’re talking about. We’re thinking about end user because I’m actually doing some things at the moment where I’m still playing prototyping, but it’s about really small things. So people have to sort of lean over or sit down, and it’s sort of like, all of a sudden it’s changing the space and way people interact with things. So it’s scary. Big or small or around you like that mirror.

Simon Burgin: Yeah, I think it’s about transporting your audience. However you go about that, however you achieve that. And I mean, it’s absolutely not exclusive to digital. I mean, there’s so many different ways to do that. I think immersive does work best outside a traditional gallery context where you actually have more control over those parameters. Like, you have more control over the environment. Like, sometimes a gallery with its kind of sterile white walls might not be conducive to an immersive experience.

Balancing commercial and artistic workflows in digital design

Robin Petterd: One thing you mentioned earlier was about balancing your art and design work. Could you expand on how those workflows intersect or diverge?

Simon Burgin: Sure. In client-driven projects, there are always external needs—branding, messaging, deadlines. It’s more structured. In contrast, with my art projects, there’s more freedom and a stronger focus on exploration. But both benefit from the same technical fluency. Using the same tools across both worlds means that improvements in one area often enrich the other. I bring the polish of commercial standards to my art, and the experimentation of my art back to commercial briefs.

Robin Petterd: Do you find your clients are open to that experimentation?

Simon Burgin: Sometimes. It depends on the project and the client. Some are really open to new methods and visual styles. Others need more convincing, so I’ll show examples from my personal work. When they see the potential, they’re often more receptive.

Robin Petterd: That cross-pollination between art and design seems like it keeps things interesting.

Simon Burgin: It absolutely does. It keeps me curious. That back-and-forth is what keeps my practice evolving.